tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458172893016186479.post4384834810322206509..comments2024-03-09T03:28:44.216-05:00Comments on Thoughts on Education Policy: Charter Schools and "Exit Doors"Corey Bunje Bowerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09764159604965707919noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458172893016186479.post-20309188989751506662008-06-03T12:12:00.000-04:002008-06-03T12:12:00.000-04:00Oops... "schools" not "schooks"Oops... "schools" not "schooks"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458172893016186479.post-71643211308415094762008-06-03T12:11:00.000-04:002008-06-03T12:11:00.000-04:00I agree with Corey that part of what makes the suc...I agree with Corey that part of what makes the successful charter schooks successful is their ability to use the "exit door" for disruptive or unmotivated students. <BR/><BR/>Not only does this allow the school to avoid the problem of such chronic behavior problems, but it also (as Corey notes) makes an impression on middle-of-the-road kids: "You can't act this way and remain in this school." It's a powerful deterrent.<BR/><BR/>If all schools had this ability, it would definitely improve the education of the remaining students. But as several bloggers noted: "Where do you put the excessed kids?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458172893016186479.post-10751727409110734642008-05-29T15:39:00.000-04:002008-05-29T15:39:00.000-04:00No. Nobody has a right to an education any more t...No. Nobody has a right to an education any more than anybody has a right to have a beautifully toned, buff body.<BR/><BR/>State legislators could pass laws saying localities must make gyms and coaches available. They might even require 5-16 year-olds to go to a gym every day.<BR/><BR/>But that does not give anyone a right to a great body.<BR/><BR/>It sounds so nice to say everyone has a right to an education but -- it -- is -- physically -- impossible. And there are real problems trying to build real solutions on impossible premises.Roger Sweenyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12734128265493099062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458172893016186479.post-81415077101717640192008-05-29T12:33:00.000-04:002008-05-29T12:33:00.000-04:00Linda: We certainly have to examine the effect a d...Linda: We certainly have to examine the effect a disruptive student has on others before making a decision on removing them from a class/school.<BR/><BR/>Roger: I thought about it, and I think the wording is ok. Certainly nobody can force an education on anybody else, but everybody still has a right to one. Nobody can force you to be silent, but you still have the right to not talk when arrested.Corey Bunje Bowerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09764159604965707919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458172893016186479.post-57223437206814418662008-05-28T16:51:00.000-04:002008-05-28T16:51:00.000-04:00The problem with this, of course, is what happens ...<I>The problem with this, of course, is what happens to the child once they're disinvited from that school -- they still have a right to an education.</I><BR/><BR/>That sentiment sounds wonderful but I'm pretty sure you don't really mean it. Because it's physically impossible.<BR/><BR/>It is possible for a government to guarantee every citizen a check each month. The government cuts the check and makes sure it gets to the recipient. The recipient need do nothing.<BR/><BR/>But no one can "give" someone an education. The person has to take it.<BR/><BR/>Governments can guarantee some sort of possibility of getting some sort of education. They can provide schools, teachers, etc. But the student has to co-operate to some minimal extent.<BR/><BR/>Some students just don't--and they act so as to <B>take away other student's opportunities to get an education.</B><BR/><BR/>Laws may require us to keep them in some sort of school. But it shouldn't be where they screw up others.<BR/><BR/>Right now they don't get an education and neither do their peers. Throw them out and they still won't get an education. But other students finally get a chance.Roger Sweenyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12734128265493099062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458172893016186479.post-32359528966138022512008-05-28T14:29:00.000-04:002008-05-28T14:29:00.000-04:00I am in favor of letting public schools take the o...I am in favor of letting public schools take the option of telling students (and their parents) "you are no longer welcome here". They used to do this, and it was one of the factors that made the schools work. The malcontents, the disruptive, and the thugs had to go. While it did little for THAT kid's education, it did wonders for the rest.Linda Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15024201252345608291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458172893016186479.post-71103278253566013722008-05-27T00:02:00.000-04:002008-05-27T00:02:00.000-04:00How hard it is to enter a charter mid-year really ...How hard it is to enter a charter mid-year really depends on the charter. It won't happen at a KIPP school. <BR/><BR/>In AZ we don't have the oversubscription problem other states have. There are always several charters in a metro area that have open slots and will take a student mid-year.<BR/><BR/>As far as the virtual schools, they aren't huge but they are growing. The thing is, they are charters with no class size limits, not homeschools. And more importantly, they are SOLD to parents that way - your kid is in a charter, they just don't have to go to class at a specific time or place. That perception seems to make a difference.Rebeccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07855308918120674423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458172893016186479.post-55614558066473339102008-05-26T23:32:00.000-04:002008-05-26T23:32:00.000-04:00Good point. I didn't really think of it that way ...Good point. I didn't really think of it that way b/c that never happened at my school -- there weren't really any charters nearby. There was a mild attempt to counsel some of the kids to apply to go to other public schools through the NCLB choice provision, but there was so much red tape and so few openings that nothing much ever came of it.<BR/><BR/>Even if kids are being counseled out of traditional public schools and into charter schools, I wonder how easy it is to start at a charter mid-year. Anybody could leave a charter or private school and enroll in their local public school within a day or two, but I'm not sure it's as easy to go the opposite direction. I'm also not sure that the number of kids doing homeschooling whether online or with adults is all that large compared to the number of students that switch schools each year.Corey Bunje Bowerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09764159604965707919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458172893016186479.post-18212563947125163102008-05-26T23:17:00.000-04:002008-05-26T23:17:00.000-04:00I find it interesting to think of public schools a...I find it interesting to think of public schools as not having an exit door. I have a good friend who teaches at a charter here in AZ (his 2nd or 3rd) and here many of the charter schools have become the exit doors for the public schools. Counselors at traditional schools will counsel students to go to a charter. <BR/><BR/>Some have very high standards, such as KIPP. That program is hard, but the kids who stick with it are well-positioned for college and future success. But as many or more charters are a collection of students who have been kicked out of somewhere else.<BR/><BR/>I think the final exit door for public students is the virtual schools; that appears to be more of where students go who aren't making it in public or charter schools.Rebeccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07855308918120674423noreply@blogger.com