tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458172893016186479.post5808931085609615172..comments2024-03-09T03:28:44.216-05:00Comments on Thoughts on Education Policy: The Biggest Problem with Schools: TraditionCorey Bunje Bowerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09764159604965707919noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458172893016186479.post-45817022810853378702008-10-29T12:23:00.000-04:002008-10-29T12:23:00.000-04:00Mazenko: Thanks for supporting my comment about un...Mazenko: Thanks for supporting my comment about unions & teaching. I'm always surprised when analysts posit a causal relationship between union membership and teacher quality. I've honestly seen no noticeable effect of unions on teaching. Unions may keep some lower performing teachers in the schools, but they also may prevent the arbitrary dismissal of high performing teachers by principals who are basing their decisions on something other than teacher quality. <BR/><BR/>In terms of setting hours, salary, etc. - as I noted, these are pretty similar in unionized public schools and non-unionized public schools. Teachers are government employees, and are governed by similar hiring, firing and compensation policies. Until someone shows me an objective study that demonstrates the effect of unions quality, I'm going to stand by my position.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458172893016186479.post-35024537745369855052008-10-28T16:22:00.000-04:002008-10-28T16:22:00.000-04:00Attorney DC makes a valid, and truly fundamental, ...Attorney DC makes a valid, and truly fundamental, point about blaming unions for performance in schools. The best schools in the country have tenured union staff just as the worse do. Thus, there is a clearly a lack of causality in unions producing poor results.<BR/><BR/>Additionally, one of the proposals is to hire better staff, but the working conditions, as well as pay and benefits and the integrity of the environment, are the primary motivations for taking a position. Over the last century, unions have played a key role in insuring those conditions for teachers.<BR/><BR/>Speaking from experience, I have been in union and non-union schools, as well as in right-to-work versus non-right-to-work states, and the problems of the system simply cannot be diluted to a labor issue. Currently, I am not in my union, but I am not opposed to collective bargaining, and I am unwilling to simply point to unions as a cause of poor school performance.mmazenkohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06602797515366983639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458172893016186479.post-81398662293461941652008-10-27T13:27:00.000-04:002008-10-27T13:27:00.000-04:00Ah, thanks for clarifying, Corey. I couldn't tell ...Ah, thanks for clarifying, Corey. I couldn't tell from your list if you were advocating for these reforms or simply noting possible avenues of change.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458172893016186479.post-44747255997410100422008-10-27T12:00:00.000-04:002008-10-27T12:00:00.000-04:00I wasn't making a list of positive reforms. I was...I wasn't making a list of positive reforms. I was making a list of reforms that various groups are pushing for.Corey Bunje Bowerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09764159604965707919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458172893016186479.post-23996349861599971342008-10-27T09:32:00.000-04:002008-10-27T09:32:00.000-04:00I disagree with your assumption that eliminating u...I disagree with your assumption that eliminating unions is a type of positive reform for schools. I taught in schools with unions and without unions (private schools, schools in non-union states): There was no difference in teacher quality due to the presence of unions. In fact, non-unionized private schools often had worse teachers because they were not subject to credentialing requirements, and the schools were not subject to state standardized test requirements.<BR/><BR/>As state employees, teachers are treated similarly to other government employees in terms of salary scales, hiring and firing. With or without unions, government employees are generally paid on a length of service + educational attainment scale. My question: Why would eliminating teacher unions have much of an effect on schools?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458172893016186479.post-84092303825778272562008-10-26T23:17:00.000-04:002008-10-26T23:17:00.000-04:00Part of implementing a reform is to gain buy-in fr...Part of implementing a reform is to gain buy-in from the people on the ground. I would think that part of gaining that buy-in is convincing them that reform will work.Corey Bunje Bowerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09764159604965707919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5458172893016186479.post-69451449385663037762008-10-26T22:16:00.000-04:002008-10-26T22:16:00.000-04:00I think part of the issue is that since there is n...I think part of the issue is that since there is no "silver bullet," many people have a "why bother" attitude about change. If something isn't going to be better than what's happening now, what's the point in making the change?<BR/><BR/>We need to confront educators with the need for change (use data) so that they at least realize that whatever is currently happening isn't the right thing.The Science Goddesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02846516022505481326noreply@blogger.com